GMH Hotels: Hotel Earnings Split and Accor’s Silent Power Play

On today’s GMH Hotels, Katie Cline and Steve Turk unpack mixed earnings from Hyatt, Wyndham Hotels & Resorts, and Choice Hotels International, plus growing concerns that World Cup hotel demand is falling short of expectations in host cities.

They also discuss Accor’s mysterious activist investor situation and what the $6.3B Amex GBT acquisition says about the next wave of travel consolidation.

This episode is presented by ⁠⁠Cloudbeds⁠⁠ & ⁠⁠Bilt⁠⁠.

Watch This Episode

Good morning, Katie.

Good morning, Steve. So nice to see you.

Yeah, it’s great to see you. Thank you for stepping in. You’re always such a great co-host with Sarah, and we’ve only got to do it one time.

I always get jealous when I see you two on the screen. But now we get to be here with you.

Well, we definitely missed Sarah today. Hello, everyone. For those of you who I don’t know yet, I’m Katie Cline.

I’m the host of Skift’s Sweet Success podcast, and I’m so happy to be back with you today, Steve.

Well, I’m excited to have you here, and my background’s a little bit different. I had to be on the move. Our office is under construction, so I had to find a quiet place in the corner to do this podcast.

But I think it looks pretty good. A nice little background in Miami, one of the hotels.

You’re bringing some sunshine in this morning. I like that.

I’m bringing the brightness. And Katie, where are you broadcasting from?

I am here in New York City, Astoria, Queens. Good to see you. But actually, last week, I was up in Lake George at one of my vacation rentals because, drum roll please, we are going to be featured on a television show.

So that’s pretty exciting.

Oh my gosh. That’s so cool. Is it an HGTV episode?

Kind of.

It’s a show called Staycation, which is part of the Destination channel. They’re doing a Lake George-focused episode and they’re highlighting a couple of properties in the area. So me and my house trout landing got to be on it, which was really cool.

Very cool.

Congratulations. That’s going to be awesome. I’m excited to see that one.

It was a lot of fun.

Viewers, make sure to let us know where you’re watching from.

We always love seeing where in the world our viewers and listeners are watching us from. We’ve got a great show today. But Katie, you also have another podcast that’s fantastic.

Why don’t you tell the listeners where they can find you and what it’s about?

I do. The podcast is called Sweet Success and of course, that’s sweet like Hotel Suite. I like to think of that as in-depth conversations with people in the hospitality industry.

Steve has actually been a guest on that show, so definitely look through the archive to find his episode to get a little bit of behind the scenes with Steve and Sarah has also been a guest too.

It’s a lot of fun getting to learn about the people behind these brands and experiences.

So much fun. We got Paul Manzi commenting, look how clear Steve’s video is today. Wi-Fi on point.

Yeah. Last two weeks was terrible. The office realized they had an issue, so now they’re trying to rewire everything.

Hopefully, next week I’ll be back in my studio. But for now, we’re bringing some clear, bright Miami views. But we have a lot of talk about today.

We do. On this episode, we’ve got some hotel earnings, we got World Cup demand, talking about Accor, Accor Hotels investor drama, and then some major acquisition news in the travel industry. I think we can jump in.

But before we do, we’ve got a new sponsor this month. I want to make sure we give them a shout out. Listeners, viewers, make sure to check them out because without them, this show wouldn’t be as good.

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I’m pretty good.

You are.

Plusgrade, take them out, everybody. Well, let’s hop into what we’ve got going on here today.

4:42

Hotel Earnings Report

Our main topic is our hotel earnings from Hyatt, Wyndham and Choice. So we’re starting to see a lot of mixed, different kind of revenues coming through for each of the different companies.

I think, you know, I can maybe kick off with Hyatt here and want to see what you’re thinking, Katie. So Hyatt, we talked about a couple of episodes ago.

They were a little bit worried with the war going on in the Middle East that maybe the earnings weren’t going to be coming in as heavy as they thought. They were worried, but they did very good.

They actually had stronger international performance than they expected coming in much better and doing a stock buyback.

As we talk about in the show all the time, luxury and lifestyle continue to outperform, and their asset light strategy continues to pay off.

So where they’re really trying to go in and bring in the mid-scale hotels into their new brands that they’ve been creating are really working for them.

Absolutely. They really saw better than feared results. Like you said, their exposure in the Middle East and Mexico was a concern.

This is where sometimes that international footprint can be a headwind or a tailwind. So it was really exciting to see that they performed better than they expected.

Yeah. Then we go into Wyndham. They stayed stable, a little bit more rocky than Hyatt they were saying.

Their economy segment, which is some of the people looking for the bargains and the deals, stayed strong and they continue to grow with their franchises across the brand. But it looks like a little bit more shaky.

They were saying that they weren’t going to do well, did a little bit better than they did. So it was just interesting to see those numbers. If you haven’t seen the article, make sure to go on Skipped and you can see this.

If you put it on the screen one more time for us, Monica, you can see the headline to make sure you can read this. So Katie, we also got Choice in there. Do you want to talk a little bit about Choice?

Yeah, I think going back to Wyndham too, what I found really interesting is that we saw that most analysts agreed that they’re guiding conservatively, which of course they are, given what is going on in the world and what you just referenced too.

And yes, moving on to Choice, they missed their estimates by more than $6 million.

This is starting to question around demand softness as well, and going back to everything that we’re seeing geopolitically in the world and how that affects our travel industry, of course, it’s going to come in to the effect with earnings as well.

Yeah, that’s kind of the overall story, right? You have this mix of the luxury continues to do very well. The people that have the high incomes, the people that are earning a ton are still looking to travel and have unique experiences.

And that’s what we saw with Marriott and we see with Hyatt and we see with Hilton, those top tier brands continue to grow.

Then the bargain where you come in with Wyndham and you start looking for the kind of like those deals is doing well, but that mid-scale is interesting that the middle class that we talk about that is potentially shrinking more and more is they’re

not traveling into those places. Those mid-tier, I would say in that $250 to $400 a night range is a tough range to be in right now. I see it across South Florida that those are ones that are really competing hard to get people to come in.

And the rates at the luxury hotels, yes, they dropped a little bit, but they’re still up there in the $800 to $1500 a night for a basic room that people are booking.

It’s interesting you mentioned that too. On Sweet Success, I recently had Colin Jones, who’s the founder and CEO of Amalfi Jets, a private jet company.

And he was on the weekend after the Ryder Cup, talking about how the Ryder Cup has now replaced the Super Bowl as the biggest weekend for private jet demand. So it’s exactly what you’re saying, Steve.

We’re seeing still huge demand in that really upper luxury space. But then when it comes to this mid-tier, we’re feeling the pressure a bit more.

Yeah, it’s interesting. So we just had, and I see Sayid saying hello. Hi, Sayid.

Great to see you join the show today. We had the F1 Grand Prix here in Miami. And I think that’s becoming really the, it’s like that in Art Basel where you see the most money coming into South Florida.

So many celebrities, so many billionaires just on the track.

And you can tell with those F1 races that the advertisements, you know, is Louis Vuitton is on all the advertisements, and Rolex, and Tag Heuer, and all the big name luxury brands, and Cartier. Everyone’s having their parties as well around it.

Rates are sky high. So you see it. This luxury segment continues to grow.

So it’ll be interesting to see how the year finishes out. I know we’re going to talk about the World Cup. That’s another big driver.

So it’ll be interesting to see as we got.

Absolutely.

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All right.

So talking about that, we talked a little bit about the ultra luxury and what’s going on.

11:08

World Cup Booking Trends

Why don’t we get into the World Cup?

Yes. I mean, we have a strong headline right away. Eighty percent of hotels say World Cup bookings are missing forecasts.

Now, that is a huge number to be saying that they’re missing.

But I also wanted to cover some of the people put in really high rates and really high expectations into their budgets, to say they were going to be hitting it.

But according to AHLA, the members respond, 80 percent are missing and are behind their original forecasts. So in Boston, Philadelphia, San Francisco, Seattle, some hoteliers are just saying that it’s a non-event for them, which is shocking.

Kansas City is the worst-performing host market in the survey, with 85 to 90 percent of operators tracking below expectations in those cities. However, it’s not all bad news, Katie.

We’re saying Atlanta, Los Angeles, New York, and Miami are really doing a good job. The mayor of Miami, who I know, is saying we’ve seen an incredible surge in pre-bookings of hotel rooms.

I can attest to that in Miami with my hospital management company, where we manage 60 different vacation homes and unique properties. We’re way ahead of where we were the last two years for those dates. So what are you seeing out there?

I know you have all different kind of information coming through to you.

Yeah, so as you mentioned, Atlanta and Miami, they are showing a majority of hoteliers reporting booking pace at or ahead of expectations. You also mentioned Los Angeles.

Anecdotally, I spoke with a gentleman who owns about six midterm rentals in the market, because of course, we know short term rentals depending on the area may or may not be allowed.

And even with midterm rentals, he is seeing huge demand, increased rates, etc.

And I think going back to something you mentioned earlier about what those forecasts were from the beginning, Skift Sean O’Neill points out that FIFA’s outrageous ticket prices combined with geopolitical turmoil have contributed to soft bookings.

But of course, hotels that really backed up their rates also share some of that blame.

They do. And look, I understand. It’s part of when you’re making your budgets at the end of the year, looking into the next year, you have owners demanding, how are you gonna capture this?

I have vacation rental owners that thought they were gonna be making thousands and thousands of dollars a night on a home that usually goes for 400 or 500. But the reality is too, there’s a lot more competition.

I know there’s not an exact number here, so maybe our skiff team can do some reporting on this.

But I was just speaking at a Vacation Rental Association meeting here in South Florida, and it was hosted by Verbo and Airbnb to say, hey, we have a lot of new hosts come in, here’s how to be a good host. And I was there to train.

And in that room, I said, all right, so many of you have been doing this before, have listed before, 90% of that room, and there was probably over 200 people there, had never, it was their first time.

And they just thought, oh, I’m gonna make a ton of money, I’m gonna cash in on this. So that puts a lot of pressure too on the hotels because they don’t have the compression to really jack up the rate to where they thought it could be.

But you said like tickets, I was telling Sarah, we looked live on one of the shows to go to the game I wanted to go to, which I think was Columbia and Portugal, which is, you know, you’ve got some of the biggest stars playing at the time in Miami.

It was $8,000 for the worst seats in the entire stadium for two tickets, right? So $4,000 a piece to go to the event, which is, you know, certain people can go.

I’m sure there’s some diehard fans that save up for years and years, you know, between the World Cups to go, but it’s just a tough, tough sell sometimes to fill stadiums that way.

You’re talking about two interesting things too. One, the amount of first time hosts, right? And secondly, property is that maybe go for a certain rate typically, that are trying to go for 3, 4, 5x that amount.

And really, I think where it’s going to come to a head is a bit on guest expectations. So I have a property in Saratoga, for example, obviously not a World Cup market, but we do host the Belmont Stakes for the last three years.

Those nights go for significantly above what my other nights will typically go for. And the thinking there, too, is now someone is entering my home and they paid that amount. So their expectations are elevated, too.

So much like you said, you’re going to pay a grand, and then all of a sudden you’re sitting in the worst seat in a stadium. How is that actually going to translate to guest feedback?

How is that going to, how is that relationship between the host or the hotelier and the guest going to proceed? And what are we going to see afterwards? I mean, we are only 37 days until kickoff now.

I know.

I’m curious to see, like, the rates are still holding strong. I’m curious to see who blinks. It’s almost like a game of chicken, because as soon as the hotels start dropping, they’re all going to have to start coming down.

So I think we’re going to really hold to see what happens within those 30 days. But I want to give a shout out to Lou for watching. Lou, Sarah’s off today.

So thanks for joining us on Skift. And Lydia, thanks for subscribing and watching live on YouTube. Appreciate you guys checking in.

Yeah, Lou pointed out crazy prices for us commoners.

And I think this goes back to what we were talking about earlier with earnings as well as these luxury price points really holding firm. But how are we supposed to afford that?

Yeah, I’m really hoping that like I got super lucky last year and got invited to the F1 race in a paddock club ticket. I’m not sure how that happened, but I found out later that I think it was $20,000.

And I’m like, I don’t know how anyone would be doing this. This is a great experience.

So Steve, what you’re saying is we need friends in high places.

We need friends in high places. So if anyone’s listening and wants to invite Katie and I to the World Cup Games, we are ready to come with you. We can make your suite even cooler.

We’ll do some live podcasts from your suite. Don’t worry, we’ll be there. But no, it really is something that we’re seeing.

So I’m really watching. Like as I look out my window, I can see all the hotels in Miami Beach. Which one’s going to blink?

Because I can see the Fontainebleau and Lowe’s and Faena, the Satay, all these luxury hotels are still keeping their prices up. So I’m curious to see. So we’ll keep an eye on and report back here and see what happens here.

But I’m excited. I love these kinds of events. I think they’re great for travel and for people that want to come.

But again, the other part of this was that travel’s hard now. We didn’t mention that.

Like, you know, we were seeing a little bit of a slump because a lot of people from Europe and the Middle East and from Asia that normally would travel, it’s much harder now to get in the country. And flights are more expensive.

Everything’s getting up there with the price of fuel. Like, I was just trying to book some flights this weekend that normally would be in the 300 range or at 900. And so it’s crazy.

Yeah.

And headlines aren’t helping in the sense of, I think a lot of international travelers are wondering how welcome they will feel while they’re here. So if you’re going to pay those prices, you want to make sure it’s going to be a fantastic experience.

And listen to the viewers. I’m curious what you’re seeing on your streets in your cities. Are you starting to see prices come down at all?

Are you seeing them staying really high? Let us know in the comments. I’d be really curious to see what you’re seeing out there.

All right. Well, we’ve got our next topic here.

Yes.

We have Accor, Accor Hotels, our friends over at Accor. There’s an activist investor situation, and we’re trying to see what that situation will be like.

But activist investor Parvis is now the largest shareholder in the company, and they hold over 12 percent of the stock. So now there’s three big holders that control over 25 percent of the stock in Accor.

So really, we’re going to start seeing there’s been no public demands yet from these investors, but they continue quietly acquiring more and more of the brand.

What we usually see with Parvis, they don’t really try to do these hostile takeovers, but they try to influence very aggressively into the companies that they’re buying into.

They’ve already had some insiders kind of murmuring that they don’t love what they’re seeing at Accor. So it’s always nerve wracking. That’s the problem.

When you’re a public company, you can have people come in and really start to affect what you have going on. What do you think with Accor here? I do love a lot of their brands.

I know this firsthand, unfortunately, because I worked for Starwood when we had an activist investor in our stock, which then led to the sale to Marriott.

I think that’s why we don’t know much right now, but it is worth a headline because we’re watching to see. Parvis first disclosed a 10.5 percent stake in Accor in January of 2024.

In every filing since, they said they did not intend to take control of Accor or request board seats, but there have been two changes that have made people start to watch a little closer.

Back in November, they converted its equity swaps into physical shares, and in that same month’s filing, they add a new language to its disclosure saying that Parvis will be particularly attentive to the governance of Accor according to a

translation. So definitely a lot of market speculation building on this one.

Yeah, I love it. I love that we’re getting the inside scoop here. We got the heartbeat on this deal.

I’m curious to see what’s going to happen. I know Skift’s reporting on this.

But look, when you’re starting to acquire that much in a company, unless you truly are in love with that company, you truly believe in the ethos and you’re all right, I’m all in on them, it’s usually the other side where you want to have some kind of

influence and you think that things can be done better, that will generate more income. Is it selling off different brands? Is it doing things to bring more value to that company?

It’s going to be interesting to see how the team at Accor works with these now really large investors in their company.

Exactly. Yes, definitely more to come and a space to watch closely.

Well, our next topic here, we’ve got American Express or Amex GBT. The travel platform for American Express is to be acquired by General Catalyst, backed by Long Lake for $6.3 billion.

Long Lake Management is a private equity firm and they’re backed by tech and travel investors. They agreed to acquire American Express Global Business Travel.

They really think that they can make a difference using some of their AI technology to work with the human planners for travel, and see how we can make them even more ultra-efficient and to work to create very unique experiences for travelers.

Yes, it is. First of all, it’s an all-cash deal. It’s expected to close in the second half of the year.

I thought that that was really interesting that they brought that up right away. Long Lake has a proprietary AI solution for enterprises. Long Lake Backers, General Catalyst, and AlphaWave are both significant investors in Anthropic and OpenAI.

Of course, AI is going nowhere. I’ve saw a clip recently about the conversations at Davos were all centered around AI. Of course, we have no surprise here that travel and AI, we need to figure out what is coming next here.

General Catalyst was an early investor in Kayak, Airbnb, and a major investor in the flight search engine that Google ended up acquiring. But in their quote, I thought this was really, really smart.

A spokesperson for Long Lake said that AMEX GBT will continue to invest in AI and travel tech, but it is also committed to using its human travel agents.

The future of business travel will be defined by AI and human agents working seamlessly together on behalf of every traveler.

Yes, I like that they threw that in there at the end. I’m always, you know, I guess I come from a family of attorneys, especially employment law attorneys.

And so you, you know, you always have to hedge your bets and make sure you say the right things. Of course, we don’t want to fire all the travel planners here. That’s not our plan.

We want them to be more efficient. Right. So, you know, we see a lot of layoffs of the big companies, a lot of the big tech companies.

I think, you know, it’s going to be interesting to see. I really hope that they keep their word on this. But I’ll stay on the positive side here.

Your legal skepticism coming through.

Yes.

It’s like, let’s just set this up. We’re now, of course, we don’t want all of you guys to leave. I’m sure the bottom performers will get moved out.

The top performers will do great, just like in every company. And they’ll have more tools to make them even better and more efficient in the travel game. But if it can really help the experience, I’m all about it.

I’m excited to see it and I’ve seen how AI is starting to do it.

I was just at a conference with Sarah, where some of the top CTOs from the cruise ships were talking about how they use AI, and how they’re planning on using it more and more to really create a unique experience.

And not to have guests on their phone all the time, but to really meet what they’re demand, like what they actually are interested in. Yeah. Like for me, if I like certain things, that’s what will serve up to me.

It’ll look at the history because I use American Express all the time to book travel.

If they can look and see everything I booked and how I like to travel, and it can serve me up options so I don’t have to search as much, that would be a fantastic experience for me. So I’m not sure how you plan your travel.

Do you use any AI right now, Katie, to start planning?

I am using a lot of AI now, and I am so interested to see how even my own personal use of it has shifted in a very short amount of time and by no means am I the techy, tech-savviest person.

But going back to what you were saying about being skeptical from a legal background, you know I come from a PR background as a publicist for my whole career.

So what I actually really respected is, there’s nothing I hate more than lazy press release quotes.

By lazy press release quotes, I mean when people say, I’m so thrilled to partner with X, Y, and Z, like you’ve wasted a sentence of space saying nothing, right?

This I thought was really well done and very intentional, at least from my perspective of how I interpreted it, of we are going to use technology to be faster, to be smarter, to be more efficient.

I think every industry is going to, or they’re going to be left behind and become like the blockbusters of our world. But they are saying right in the beginning that they are still bullish on using humans.

Like you said, it could just be, hey, we don’t want to scare our employee base. But I actually think in travel, we all know we need a human too. But we need our humans to be faster, smarter, quicker based on their use of AI.

I agree.

I was just on a trip in Moab, Utah. I’ve never been there and I was standing on the corner of Main Street and Center Street, if I can remember correctly.

I said, hey, I’m standing here looking for a restaurant that has some options that are more than burgers and pizza. What can you give me? It scanned really quick.

It looked at my surroundings and actually pointed me, right down the street to the right is a great Thai restaurant for you to try out. That’s how I think this will start to help. It’ll be faster, intuitive.

Our travel planners can really dive into things that maybe they wouldn’t have found before and really help their customers and people traveling. So I’m excited.

There’s a lot of speculation in this article too about how much more Amex GBT can be doing in the corporate segment as well. But I think particularly for Leisure, that is really where we have been and where we’re going as travelers, right?

For me, I have two young children. Sometimes I’m just like, I want to go someplace warm. I want it to be a direct flight.

I want it to have restaurants and walking distance or a beach. I don’t actually really care where I’m going and I have price sensitivities but a range, right?

If I’m asking a human that, they need to stop and think and they’re going to have decency bias and whatnot but if they can be empowered by the machines to kind of cull down that list and then use their human knowledge on top of that, I think that’s

I agree with you.

As with kids, it makes it even easier that way. Especially when you have to guess and go through all the reviews like we used to have in the old days.

All right, let me check out Yelp and TripAdvisor and then we’ll get over here, put them all together. Let’s just get a picture here, which I do love. All right, well, hopefully, it’ll be better for us across the board with American Express.

So we’ll keep an eye out for that.

27:30

Spirit Airlines Closure

I do want to talk about something before we kind of get into our last segment here, which we do love, because we talked about it last episode with Spirit Airlines.

So last week at this time, Sarah and I were saying that Spirit Airlines was basically begging the government for $500 million to continue on.

And then over the weekend, we saw the reports all over the news that Spirit Airlines closed down abruptly on Saturday.

And I want to get your opinion on this, because the one thing I didn’t see too, which I didn’t realize was just two years ago, they built a $250 million campus just outside the Fort Lauderdale Airport here in South Florida.

And so now that will, since it’s empty, sits locked and no one’s there. So curious what you think, Katie, because I didn’t get your point of view on this situation.

Look, it’s sad. I really feel for all the associates, especially the flight attendants, the pilots, the frontline corporate associates as well. I also feel sad of what does that mean for economy travel domestically.

We know with less competition, there’s going to be increased prices. We’re already seeing increased prices with fuel, as you mentioned earlier.

And I know excitingly, our colleagues Sarah and Seth are going to be talking much more in detail about this on the Skift Travel podcast, which is going to be out on Friday.

28:46

So I’m really excited to hear their expert take as well. What about you, Steve? Yeah.

In my mind, right?

Like, all right, maybe that model doesn’t work where you could fly somewhere for $60 and $90, right? That maybe just isn’t going to happen. But I’m sure someone out there has to fill in that demand.

There’s so much demand for people that want to travel at some lower late rates. How can they get creative to figure it out? And I would hate it to see like seats stacked on top of each other or, you know, standing room only.

There’s one airline joke to kind of fill it in. So I’m curious to see what creativity comes from the industry, because there are so many people that want to travel that way.

And then I secretly hope that one day there’s some more high-speed trains in our country. So I would love to see more of that.

Yes.

That’s what I would love to see. And so maybe that opens up the opportunity. But then I’ve got my friends here on Brightline trains in South Florida.

They’re also having some challenges with ridership and getting people to convert there.

Yeah. I feel that frustration on the trains. I used to live in England for six years and their rail network is fantastic.

Even just the tube within London, you can get so many places faster than you can in a car.

And I remember when my family came to visit, they were like, we can just take a taxi because they’re used to New York City where it’s faster to go even during rush hour in a car than it is via multiple subways.

And I was like, no, it will be like three times faster if we just take.

Maybe slightly slower than a plane in certain situations, but you would have to work at the airport, go through TSA.

Right.

So maybe about the same amount of time.

Yeah.

I’d be interested to see what you all think.

30:53

Hotel Brand Quiz

All right. Well, let’s wrap up on my favorite segment here because we’re going to be doing a whose brand is it anyway. And this is my favorite segment because there are so many hotel brands out there.

We want to see who the parent hotel company is. And we are going to be guessing today on Ascend Hotel Collection. Who is the parent company to Ascend Hotel Collection?

And we’ll give all you viewers and listeners a minute to guess. Let’s put that on the screen one more time for them to really drink it in. Ascend Hotel Collection.

All right. Before we put up the answer, Katie, I’ll give you the honors to go first. Oh, gosh.

You did not tell me we were doing this.

And as much as I want to Google on the side right now, I’m not going to do it. I’m never going to do it.

I’ve done every single one wrong over the last five weeks.

I’m going to say IHG.

IHG for you. All right. I’m going to say we talked about them today.

I’m going to go with Accor.

Okay.

What is the correct answer here, Monica? Who do we got?

Choice Hotels.

We were way off.

This is so fun.

Good job, Choice. Kate Harris from Washington, she got it right. She got it right.

Choice Hotels. Good job. Also, Kate said a little thing about trains.

She said, yes, I’m a huge fan of Brightline. I would love to see more rail travel here in the US. All men think speed and convenience would drive more interest.

Absolutely.

We can, like you said, Katie, I’m Amtrak going from Miami to New York, it takes like a day and a half, two days.

20 plus hours, yeah.

We could speed it up, would be amazing.

There’s a YouTuber I follow who took it across the country and it was like six days in a train. And I was like, that’s crazy. So, we got to figure it out here, trains, planes.

Fun, trains, we’re ready, we’re ready to ride the rails.

Yeah, but a great episode today.

Again, thank you to our sponsors of Plusgrade. Make sure to check out plusgrade.com and to Bilt at joinbilt.com/gmh. We appreciate you sponsoring and supporting the show.

And for listeners and viewers, look, Katie and I, I think we did a pretty good episode. Make sure to pause this, share this with one of your friends. They’re gonna enjoy it.

And as always, hey, make sure to subscribe. This is a free show. There’s not much free to subscribe to in life.

So make sure to do that now with us. But until next week, everyone, stay hospitable.

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